Argument for Mario
being the greatest NHL Player

Mario vs Wayne

The Athletic’s list of the greatest players of the modern era of the NHL, Wayne Gretzky was listed number 1 and Mario Lemieux was listed as number 2. “He’s No. 2? You might have him too low. Mario’s the best player that ever lived”, said Scotty Bowman, record holder for most wins as a coach in National Hockey League history. Bowman has fourteen Stanley Cup victories as head coach or executive, plus 4 times he coached the Stanley Cup final runner up.

Mario Lemieux

MARIO LEMIEUX vs WAYNE GRETZKY

The Greatest NHL hockey player of All Time argument begins with Wayne Grezky and Mario Lemieux. We won't go into a comprehensive chronicling Lemieux's entire career here, but that can be found in a great article from Yardbarker - Mario Lemieux: Career retrospective

Introduction:

Wayne Grezky and Mario Lemieux were contemporaries that played against each other for a large portion of their careers and even had a golden oppourtunity as teammates. Wayne Gretzky held 61 NHL records when he retired in 1999, the most decorated NHL Player in history. Many of those records will not be surpased. Many hockey fans and historians will recognize Wayne as the greatest ever, but Mario Lemieux argueably can be acknowledged as equal to or greater than "The Great One".

Teammates and Career Start:

Wayne Gretzy started his NHL career with the 1979-80 Edmonton Oilers, at age 19. On that team were future hall of famers Mark Messier, age 19 and defenseman Kevin Lowe, age 20. By Gretzky's sophomore NHL season, the Oilers had added 3 more rookies that would become future NHL hall of fame players in Paul Coffey, Jari Kurri and Glenn Anderson. The Oilers, also in that 1980-81 season, added 1,000 game defensive defenseman Charlie Huddy and Andy Moog with 372 career NHL wins. Andy Moog is not currently in the Hall of Fame, but won 3 cups with the Oilers and then lead the Boston Bruins to the Stanly Cup finals twice, only to loose to his former teammates on the Edmonton Oilers dynasty. Charlie Huddy played in 6 Stanley Cup Finals and lead the NHL in Plus/Minus in 1982-83. He was not a flashy offensive defenseman like Paul Coffey, but he was a significant contributor to the Oilers 5 Stanley Cups. 1981-82 Edmonton Oilers became a juggernaught adding a 19 Year old Grant Fuhr in net. The Oilers produced 48 Wins - 17 Losses - 15 Ties for 111 Points, second best in the league. They were well on their way to becoming a dynasty with talented and young star players, yet to hit their prime. Gretzky was absolutely incredible and amazing in his first three seasons, but he also had a enormous amount of young talent surrounding him, plus solid veteran NHL players. In 1983 this core group made it to their first Stanley Cup final.

Gretzky Teammates
1986 NHL ALL Star Game
The 1986 NHL All Star game included 9 Oilers Players

Now Let's compare that roster with Mario Lemieux's teams his first 3 NHL seasons.

The 1983-84 Pittsburgh Penguins were attrocious, and that's putting it kindly. The Penguins tanked to get the first pick in the 1984 draft and the right to pick Mario Lemieux. Mario unfairly was already being compared to Gretzky at a young age with his prodigous talent. Mike Lange, longtime broadcast play by play voice of the Penguins. “I went to see him play once when he was with Laval (Mario's Juniors team). It was like he was playing a completely different sport. It’s one thing to be so dominant. What jumped out to me was the artistry. He didn’t just score goals, he scored the prettiest goals you’d ever seen. He didn’t just make passes, they were perfect passes that half the time his teammates weren’t ready for because they didn’t see the game like he could." The Penguins were incredibly bad by professional standards 16-58-6 (38 points), and even traded away their captain Randy Carlyle, a Norris Trophy winning defenseman, to become even worse as New Jersey Devils only finished with 3 more points that the Penguins. To Say that the cupboards were bare for the Pittsburgh Penguins and Mario Lemieux in his rookie season in 1984-85 would be an understatement. Mario Lemieux would win the Calder Memorial Trophy for NHL Rookie of the Year, beating out Chris Chelios who finnished runner up by a wide margin. Finnishing 4th on the Rookie of the Year voting was the Pittsburgh Penguins Warren Young. Young finished ahead of notable NHL names such as Kirk Muller, Tomas Sandström, Peter Zezel, Dave Ellett, Kelly Hrudey, Eddie Olczyk, and John Vanbiesbrouck. Warren Young was a 29 year old rookie that had scored 2 NHL goals in his career prior to playing on Lemieux's line in 1984-85. Not to disparage Young, He scored 40 goals - 72 points and 2nd on the team in scoring with Lemieux passing him the puck in 1984-85, which was more goals than the 30 goals he scored in his entire career after that season. Warren Young signed a 1 million dollar contract as a free agent after the season with the Detroit Red Wings. The Detroit Red Wings didn't realize that they didn't also get Lemieux when they signed Warren Young.

Warren Young

It could be said that I'm cherry picking the data by using Warren Young, the second leading scorer for the Pittsburgh Penguins in 1984-85, as an example. So, Let's go through the roster of players the Penguins had in the first 3 seasons of Lemieux's career. Plenty of familary names that 1980's Penguins fans watched in person or on TV. Penguins defensemen included Moe Mantha, Randy Hillier, Doug Bodger, and Jim Johnson all NHL professional atheletes but not a single post season all star consideration or a Norris Trophy vote. Penguin Wingers Troy Loney, Bob Errey, Randy Cunneyworth, and Phil Bourque NHL professional atheletes that I remain fans of but no post season all star selection. Cunneyworth did get end of season vote for Left Wing all star (tied 13th place - 1 vote) and selke (tied 21st place- 1 vote), but well outside the top 10. Doug Bodger was the only player that eclipsed 1,000 NHL games, and Bodger is the only player with more than 500 career points. Bodger was a first round draft pick in 1984, the same year as Lemieux, going 9th overall to the Penguins.

Lemieux Teammates

Not including a 20 year old Doug Bodger (who was an NHL regular at age 18), The two of Lemieux’s teammates in the first 3 years of Lemieux's career that I think stand out compared to the rest of the roster are Mike Bullard and Craig Simpson. Mike Bullard a one time NHL 50 Goal scorer who had 329 goals, 674 points, 727 games played in his 11 year NHL career, but played at center on a different line than Lemieux's. Drafted 9th overall by the Pittsburgh Penguins in the 1980, Bullard was a consistant goal scorer for some very bad Pittsburgh Penguin teams. He was traded for center Dan Quinn during Lemieux's 3rd season in 1986-87. Bullard even broke the 100 point barrier with the Calgary flames in 1987-88, including a 48 goals that season. Bullard would be traded from Calgary in a multi-player deal for Doug Gilmour, a key contributor and center for Calgary's 1989 Stanley Cup Championship. In a what-if scenario, I wonder the results have been if the Pens could have traded Bullard for Gilmour instead of Quinn. Craig Simpson was drafted 2nd overall by the Penguins in 1985, the year after Lemieux's draft. Craig Simpson was the type of young talent that the Penguins needed at the time and only 18 scored 11 goals his rookie season. The following year at age 19, Simpson scored 26 goals and 51 points in his sophomore NHL campain showing a bright future ahead. Simpson would go on to win two stanley cups but a serious back injury at 25 unfortunately ended his career prematurely. He would play only 46 games after his age 25 season, and was limited to 634 NHL games in total.

Simpson Bullard

So there is a obvious large gap in Talent for the skaters that played with Gretzky in his early years vs Lemieux's teammates. But there is an even larger gap once we look at the goalies. Denis Herron, Roberto Romano, Michel Dion, Brian Ford, Pat Riggin, Steve Guenette were all Goalies that played in net for the Penguins between 1984-85 and 1986-87. Not names or performances that jump off the page. The probably best and most consistent goaltender the Penguins had was 36 year old Gilles Meloche. Gilles Meloche was a good goaltender for NHL's California Golden Seals and the Cleveland Barons in the 1970's. Two teams that no longer exist and fans born in the 1970's or after may not have ever heard of. Gilles was probably the best the Penguins had in my opinion, well past his prime. Looking back at the 1985 trade that acquired Meloche, it may have been wiser to keep Marty McSorely (961 NHL games played) and Craig Muni (819 NHL games played). Mario Lemieux's career lasted long enough that he was able to play with Gilles son, Eric Meloche, for 3 seasons in Pittsburgh.

Gilles Meloche

Empty Net Goals and Plus Minus:

The team talent gap is very noticeable in the results. Wayne Gretzky blew up goal a scoring feat that was the mark of an elite and generational player. "50 goals in 50 games" is achieved when an NHL player scores 50 goals the first 50 (or less) games to start the teams season. Maurice Richard did it orignially in 1944-45, with Mike Bossy, Wayne Gretzky (3 Times), Mario Lemieux and Brett Hull (2 times) being the only 5 to accomplish this feat. If the NHL would recognize the feat as 50 goals in a player's first 50 games, Mario would tie Wayne with accomplishing it 3 times, adding the 1992-93 and 1995-96 seasons. This is a technicality that makes me shake my head when Gretzky is recognized for accomplishing it 3 times, but Mario only once. Jari Kurri, Cam Neely and Alexander Mogilny also get left out of this amazing accomplishment and I think they should be also recognized for the same 50 in 50 accomplishment.

When Wayne Gretzky scored 50 goals in only 39 games, 11 games faster than the previous mark, who was the goaltender he scored on ? The answer may surprize you but the goalie was "Air". It was an empty net goal. As amazing the feats were that Gretzky produced, he was on a juggernaut of a team loaded with talent. In the high scoring 80's, pulling the goalie for an extra attacker gave way to the opportunity for empty net goals, additional points and a better plus minus. Alex Ovechkin scored his 57th career empty net goal on Feb 10th, 2024 to pass Wayne Gretzky all time in NHL career empty net goals. A recent study on the 2015–2016 NHL season found that when a team pulls it's goalie the attacking team is 3 times more likely to score with 6 skaters, but the opposing team is 7 times more likely to score an empty net. Just as this Benefited Gretzky on the great teams that he played, it was definately a detriment to the horrible teams that Lemieux played both at the start and at the end of his career. Lemieux instead of cleaning up with additional empty net goals and points on great teams, had the situation reversed for an NHL organization, the Pittsburgh Penguins that went bankrupt not once, but twice ! Mario was incredible effecient when there was an empty net oppourtunity and has the highest empty-net goal career average for players with 400+ goals, approximately 1 in 20. How many more goals would have Lemieux buried if he had teams winning high 40's and 50 wins seasons, instead of 20's and low 30 win teams.

What if Lemieux and Gretzky were Teammates?

As we Compare the Lemieux and Gretzky, could you imagine if Gretzky and Lemieux played together in their prime ? Well, the 1987 Canada Cup has your answer. Canada, Czechoslovakia, Finland, the Soviet Union, Sweden and the United States played a best on best tournament in the Summer of 1987 prior to the NHL regular season. NHL stars were on every team as Dominik Hašek played for Czechoslovakia. Jari Kurri, Teppo Numminen, and Esa Tikkanen played for Finland. Mats Näslund and Kent Nilsson wore the tre kronor of Sweden. Joe Mullen, Pat LaFontaine, Kevin Hatcher, Phil Housley, Gary Suter, Chris Chelios, Tom Barrasso, and John Vanbiesbrouck wore the red, white and blue for the United States. The heavy weights in this best on best tournament were at the time the USSR and Canada, and this was still during the Cold War. The Soviets had the famous KLM line of Vladimir Krutov, Igor Larionov, Sergei Makarov, to go along with Vyacheslav Fetisov, Alexei Kasatonov, Valeri Kamensky, Igor Kravchuk, Sergei Nemchinov, and at least 4 more future NHL players after the Communist wall in eastern europe fell in the early 1990's. In 1987, The Soviet Union had 280 Million people, compared to only 26 Million Canadians. Canada's lineup was loaded with talent including numerous NHL Hall of Fame players, Dale Hawerchuk, Mark Messier, Mike Gartner, Glenn Anderson, Michel Goulet, Brent Sutter, Rick Tocchet, Doug Gilmour, Claude Lemieux, Mario Lemieux, Wayne Gretzky, Raymond Bourque, Larry Murphy, Paul Coffey, Ron Hextall, Kelly Hrudey, and Grant Fuhr. The Finals was a 3 game series between the Soviet Union and team Canada, with the first to two wins becoming the champion.

Wayne Gretzky was only 26 years old, in his prime and included being double shifted by Canada's coach Mike Keenan. The best players in the world and Canada leaned on their star player Gretzky, who lead the tournament with 21 points in 9 games. Second in all tournament scoring was Mario Lemieux with a 18 tournament points, and first overall in goals with 11 goals. 4 goals better than the closest competator.

1987 Canada Cup

For Mario Lemieux who was only 21 years old at the time, It showed the tremendous talent and ability he had against the world's best players. It could be said it was a coming out party that Penguins fans and many NHL fans that followed the sport closely already knew. Mario was a incredibly talented hockey player 6'4" tall, more than 4 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier than Gretzky's frame. But Lemieux had just as much skill and ability as Gretzky in a larger size.

This is a great article from sportsnet canada on the 1987 Canada Cup as they revisted the series on it's 30th Anniversary. After dropping the first game to the Soviets in Overtime, Canada rallied back to tie the series on a double overtime goal from Mario Lemieux. In the third and final game of the tournament, Mario Lemieux scored one of the most famous goals in Canadian hockey history to win the series with only 1 minute and 26 seconds left in game 3. Valeri Kamensky said "the perfect shot. (Mario) scores like this probably 100 times. He’s the greatest player in the world, I think." Gretzky said "I don’t know if the best team won the tournament."

Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux were a devastating combination for the opposing goalie, when having a odd man advantage for a scoring oppourtunity.

Lemieux had amazing hand eye coordination and hockey skill that rivaled Gretzky. But Lemieux came a larger body frame, watch as he literally carries Wayne Gretzky.

1987 Canada Cup Game, Gretzky to Lemieux for the game and series winning goal

Trades, Coaching, and 200 point season:

Mario did learn playing with Gretzky, and Gretzky told Mario to quit his pack a day smoking habit with Mario's immense potential. Mario did stop smoking, but playing with defensemen Paul Coffey lead to an oppourtunity for the Penguins in 1987-88. The Oilers did not want to pay Coffey after their 3rd Staney Cup win in 1987, so they shipped him off to Pittsburgh for Craig Simpson, Moe Mantha and Chris Joseph, who was the Penguins 1987 1st round draft pick (5th overall). It was the first time Lemieux had someone that could play with Lemieux on Lemieux's all-star level. The Oilers were not done penny pinching their wallet, as they would give the same treatment that they gave to Coffey by trading Gretzky (1988), Jari Kurri (1991), Mark Messier (1991), Grant Fuhr (1991) and Glenn Anderson (1991). Although Coffey brought experience and skill to the Penguins in 1987-88, it didn't make up for a lack of coaching expertise. On the Last game of the season, the Penguins had a must win situation to get into the playoffs. The players had to tell their head coach Pierre Creamer, to pull the goalie as a tie would eliminate the Penguins. Mario Lemieux would score a goal, from one knee on the ice for his 70th goal of the season 168th point to win the game and the scoring title over Gretzky by 19 points. Gretzky only played in 64 games in 1987-88, limited by a knee injury. Unfortunately, it was not enough to get into the playoffs, as the other teams that needed to loose won their game, denying Mario from the Post season again, when there were only 21 teams and 16 made the playoffs. Mario did win the Hart trophy as league's MVP.

In 1988-89, Mario Lemieux had one of his most amazing seasons, and his highest point total in his career with 199 points offically. Late in the Season at Madison square garden, April 1st to be exact, Rob Brown shot a puck into the net that the refs and goal judge did not call a goal as John Vanbiesbrouck caught the puck spinning around and the entire puck and glove were in the net. Rob Brown would finish the season with 49 goals, and Mario Lemieux finished with 199 points. Wayne Gretzky is the only player in NHL history to score 200 points in a season and did it 4 times. That is an incredible feat, but Mario with 199 points is often not mentioned with that record. The fact that Mario almost broke 200 points with Rob Brown and Bob Errey/Randy Cunneyworth as his wings is incredible. Not to disparage those players, but they weren't Mario Lemieux or Paul Coffey. The Penguins had a great regular season, with Tom Barrasso backstoping the penguins in goal. Barrasso was a Calder and Vezina Trophy winner. He was aquired for Doug Bodger at the start of the season. The Penguins were building talent around Lemieux, enough to have a team and not just Lemieux to carry the Penguins on his back. Mark Reechi was a rookie in 1988-89 and Kevin Stevens was in his second NHL campaign, playing playing 15 and 24 games respectfully.

Injuries, Surgeries, and Cancer:

Wayne Gretzky scored 2,857 points in his career which is almost unfathomable. Incredibly, Wayne though may have had even more had he not missed some games due to injury. Wayne was pretty lucky with his health, with the notable knee injury in 1987-88. In 1992-93, Wayne Gretzky was diagnosed with a herniated thoracic disk, missing a large part of that season. Wayne had excruciating pain in his rib area, that was later identified as a herniated disk in his spine.

During the 1989–90 NHL season, Lemieux was suffering from excruciating back pain. In spite of this, Lemieux scored a point in 46 consecutive games, second only to Wayne Gretzky's 51-game point streak. During the Streak, Mario could not bend over to put on his skates, and had to have someone else do it for him. He also had to use his arm to pull his pants to get over the boards to get on and off the ice. Lemieux literally was physically attacked on a regular basis, the cross-checks to the back increasing in frequency when the league opposition knew that his back was hurting. Bob Errey said. “Gretzky was protected in a way that Mario was not. The Oilers had so much talent that they could afford to have a few tough guys around to scare people off of Gretzky at all times. We weren’t there at that point. People always went after Mario. Maybe it was because he was big. I really don’t know. But he took a beating every night. And let’s be honest, he shouldn’t have been playing during that streak. He was doing a disservice to his body. But he just had so much pride. He wanted that record.Thinking back on it, how the hell did he do that? How did he put up a point in 46 straight games when he couldn’t skate? He never practiced. He was always in pain. It blows you away.” Lemieux had a herniated disc, and had to have back surgery in 1990.

Wayne Gretzky recieves an innocuous looking hit leading to a huge brawl.

1992 Stanley Playoffs - Adam Graves deliberately tries to injure Lemieux and breaks Lemieux's hand.

David Shaw suspended for 12 games for slashing Lemieux's neck.

On the last day of the 1989–90 NHL season, the Penguins would only need a tie to make it back into the playoffs. Mario Lemieux after sitting out all of the games once the scoring streak ended on February 14th, played in the final game of the season trying to will his team to the playoffs. Mario assisted on a early goal, but was not his magical self that night. Uwe Krupp, defenseman of the Buffalo Sabres scored on a shot from the right point, maybe the 2nd most famous goal of Krupp's career, to end the Penguins season and deny them the playoff oppourtunity. The Penguins only needed a tie. It was a fortuitous loss for the penguins, as it allowed the Penguins to select Jaromir Jagr with their first pick in the 1990 NHL entry draft.

What if Lemieux and Gretzky were healthy for their entire careers?

Gretzky will be the league's all time leading point scorer with a record that will not be touched 2,857 points. Jaromir Jagr, the ageless wonder, is second all time in NHL points scored. Wayne Gretzky has more assists with 1,963 than Jaromir Jagr has in points 1,921. Jaromir Jagr, Mark Messier, Gordie Howe, and Joe Thornton are in the top 13 players of all time in points scored. Each of them played more than 1,700 NHL games. Gordie played even many more professional games in the WHA which was a NHL league rival in the 1970s. Gretzky had relatively good health, with the noted knee and scary back injury mentioned earlier. Gretzky only missed 8 games total combined through his first 8 NHL seasons. If we look at his entire career he was able to play in 1487 out of 1618 possible NHL games. That 1618, include the games missed during the 1994-95 NHL lock out that limited the season for all teams to only be 48 games. I did a simple math formula by taking the goals per game and points per game average for the season and adjusted it if Gretzky had not missed any games in his career. Since he was traded mid season between Los Angeles and St. Louis, I added one additional game in the chart below for both Los Angeles Kings and St. Louis Blues, even though Gretzky played the majority of the season for the Kings.

Gretzky What IF

Gretzky potentially if he was healthy to play in every game, which an unrealistic expectation, but let's just hypotheically look at the results - could have scored 3,093 points based upon his seasonal average for every season he played. Over 3,000 points is absolutely astonishing. Gretzky had a healthy career, while Lemieux did not have that same experience. Lemieux lost many games in his prime of his career, which when compated to Gretzky's cumulative numbers causes a large numerical gap. But, Let's also apply that logic to Mario Lemieux. Let's hypothetically say he didn't take a beating with cross checks on his back, a broken hand from Adam Graves vicious slash, multiple back surgeries and didn't have to overcome cancer with its detrimental treatments on the human body. Mario Lemieux did not play in the 1994-95 lockout shortened season as he was letting his body recover from the intense radiation treatments from fighting cancer. So, Let's take the average rate blended equally between the season prior (17 divided by 22 - goals per game) and the season post (69 divided by 70 - goals per game) to calculate the potential number. We can do this for goals, assists and points. We can also use this same formula for the 2004-05 NHL lock out that caused the entire league and every player to miss the season. But, Mario did retire for 3 seasons from 1997-2000. So in this instance, for the 3 seasons, we can weight them a little different. We can take the 1997-98 and make it 75% towards the 1996-97 season and only 25% to the 2000-01 season in the weighting. The 1998-99 can be split evenly 50%/50% between the averages of 1996-97, 2000-01. And Finally, we can take the 1999-00 and weight it 25% towards the 1996-97 season and 75% to the 2000-01 season in the weighting. After following this premise, I did have to laugh as Lemieux's assists per game average, 78 assists per 82 game season, were identical for 1996-97 and 2000-01 paces that Lemieux was on.

Lemieux What IF

Lemieux with all those games missed due to Cancer, Injury, NHL lock outs, etc. was on a pace to score 3093 points, if he was healthy to play in every game, which an unrealistic expectation. But, Anyone that watched Lemieux's skill, size and jaw dropping play as a hockey artist on ice elegantly slicing through defenses and making fools out of goaltenders should not be surprised at all. Gretzky played in the NHL until he was 38. If Mario also played all these games and didn't have to rescue the Pittsburgh Penguins twice from bankruptcy as first a player and then an owner, maybe he then retires at 38 two seasons younger. Yes, Gretzky would hypotheically have him in points if we remove the last two years from the chart above. But, Lemieux was more of a goal scorer that Gretzky, look at the number of goals that Lemieux paced himself at during his career, it is beyond rediculous with 1,223 goals. Lemieux would have easily broken the 200 point barrier if he didn't miss 4 games in the 1988-89 season. And I still to this day say he did, and the refs and goal judge in Madison Square Garden denied him of this feat that he did accomplish. The 1988-89 season was not his greatest season when looking at the scoring pace. Lemieux in 1992-93 even with getting radiation treatment and missing 24 games that season because of cancer, was on a pace for 97 goals, 224 points and breaking Gretzky's single season record for both marks. 1992-93 the Penguins had a team coming off of 2 stanley cup wins with as much talent as the 1980's Wayne Gretzky Oilers. Lemieux had a team around him in 1992-93 like Gretzky did to start his career. Mario Lemieux had Rick Tocchet and Kevin Stevens as his wings. Jaromir Jagr, Ron Francis, Larry Murphy, Joey Mullen, Ulf Samuelsson, and Tom Barrasso were part of a team to surround Lemieux with an incredible team that was probably the best Penguins Team Mario Lemieux ever played on. It didn't win the Stanely Cup that season, but the best and most talented teams don't always win. That's why we watch sports, as the outcome can't be determined on paper, and neither can debates.

1992-93 Penguins

Team Success for their Entire Careers:

Lemieux had a great team built around him in the 1990's, including 2 stanley cup wins. We pointed out the disparity in rosters at the beginning of Lemieux's and Gretzky's careers. Lemieux came out of retirement to save the Penguins again from relocation and bankruptcy to keep the team in Pittsburgh. The Penguins were cash strapped and abismal on talent through the final few seasons of Lemieux's career. Gretzky had much better teams surrounding him throughout his career. After the 1992-93 Los Angeles Kings team made a run to the Stanely Cup Final, the Kings teams slid into a playoff drought. Gretzky was traded to St. Louis in 1996, and signed as a free agent with the New York Rangers prior to the 1996-97 season. Gretzky's teams at the end were certainly not the overwhelming forces he had as an Oiler in his prime, but they also were not nearly as bad as the rosters Lemieux was saddled with to try and save a franchise from extinction.

Team Scuccess


Final Summary

If you think Gretzky, Lemieux or someone else is the greatest NHL player ever it is an opinion. For many of those that saw Lemieux play in his prime, there is justification for the argument that Mario Lemieux is the greatest NHL hockey player of all time. It is neat to look at the all time career list for NHL points scored to see how many were teammates of the pair, even if it was only 1 NHL season that they played with Lemieux and/or Gretzky. Lemieux is the only player in the top 41 players of all time in NHL points that played less than 1,000 games. There are many arguments for Gretzky as the greatest player ever, and the records he holds are an easy way back up the opinion. Gretzky was healthy and had significantly better teams for larger part of his career, while Lemieux did not have his health or the same team support around him. The raw numbers reflect this. Gretzky's assists records are astonishing, but I wonder how many more assists Lemieux would have had if he was passing to Messier, Kurri, Anderson, etc. instead of Warren Young, Rob Brown, etc. Gretzky is probably the greatest passer of all time, but in the goal scoring ability Lemieux was second to none. He played through clutch and grabbing, slashes, crosschecks, holding, hooks, and any tool the defense could try to stop the best 1 on 1 player in NHL history. This punnishment took a toll on him physically, which is not to mention Cancer and the medical treatments he endured and overcame.

Career Points

"(Mario) was the greatest player... I ever played against he was the best player I played with... Mario was so good... (Mario) just was special and unfortunately... injuries and his disease that he had to battle through. He would have broke all my records there's no question. He was that good." - Wayne Gretzky

If you want to read more about Mario Lemieux, I suggest the online excerpts from Pittsburgh Post-gazette - The Evolution Of Mario Lemieux: 30 Years In Pittsburgh

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